Curse

Rainstorm13 · Aug 18, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I've had my monk for a while now, and have always run full heal or have been a bonder with her while in parties. Now I want to try something different that is not run much- Active Prot. Basically, I want to reduce the damage on the party rather than just heal through it. But, I lack a build to use. Does anyone have a good build that they use in PvE for this?

Also, can Boon Prot be run in PvE?

Thanks in advance

Melon · Aug 18, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Yeah, get a ritualist.

Pick Me · Aug 18, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

I'm sure there are Boon Prot builds in the builds thread.

Can they be used in PvE? Yes, but you need energy management as well. Be a Mo/Me and have some prot spells and inspiration spells (to keep energy levels up). Booning will not help you as 3 energy every 10 seconds is not enough.

Mr_eX · Aug 19, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I ran active prot in a FoW party a few days ago and I was surprised at how well it worked.

Mo/Me
16 prot prayers
10 divine favor
9 inspiration magic

Mend Ailment
Guardian
Prot Spirit
Life Sheath {E}
open
open
open
Rebirth

In the three open slots you want to put energy management spells from Inspiration Magic--channeling, inspired hex, inspired enchantment, drain enchantment, energy tap, power drain, etc--whichever ones best suit the area. Another prot spell or two couldn't hurt either.

Aegis is excellent for defending the entire party, but the 15-energy cast can get hard to manage. Hex-removal spells--Remove Hex, Smite Hex, Holy Veil, Reverse Hex--are also part of the responsibility of a protection monk, especially if your group has a Wammo who will kill himself if he has Empathy or SS on him.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 19, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I actually prefer to run an active prot build to a bonder (because bonding is so boring).

Healing Breeze
Guardian
Mend Condition
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Shield of Regeneration {E}
Aegis
Rebirth / Resurrection Chant

PvE groups unload all their damage the first few seconds of a fight, so using this you should be pre-protting with Protective Spirit and Reversal/Guardian. Aegis's energy cost is not a problem when used sparingly, and Breeze is there to help out with degen and as a general heal. Energy is rarely a problem for me, just don't cast things when you don't need to (and remember that PS is an excellent e-management skill, particularly when cast on squishies).

Protection Prayers 15
Healing Prayers 9
Divine 13

Age · Aug 19, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

I like active protect as well although I used my Mo/W to do it and have no problems as I don't use boon.I compare active to healing as you have to stay alert.When you passive protect with bond you just have to watch your bonds and hit your blessed signet in some places passive is better but for the most part active works really well.

Why wouldn't use be able to use boon in PvE as long as you got a good source of Mana to go along with it.

ender6 · Aug 20, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Here's what I run when I do boon prot for PvE

Rersal of Fortune (RoF)
Mend Condition
Signet of Devotion
Prot Spirit (or spirit Bond)
Mantra of Recall {E}
Inspired Hex
Divine Boon
Rebirth (some sort of rez)

attributes as I recall (with one sup rune rest minor)
Divine 14 Prot 12 Inspired 10

GL and have fun

K U J A · Aug 20, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Healing Breeze sucks .

Samuel Dravis · Aug 20, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Don't play PvE much, do you? lol. In PvE it's one of the best skills. Definately not for PvP though.

B Ephekt · Aug 20, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis

Don't play PvE much, do you? lol. In PvE it's one of the best skills. Definately not for PvP though.

Breeze is a horrible skill in pve too. If you're trying to use it to counter degen, just remove the condition or hex causing the degen... for 5 less energy. And Breeze is absolutely horrible for pure healing...

Personally I would use something like this for pve.

Reversal
Guardian
Prot Spirit / Spirit Bond
Life Sheath
Aegis
Mend Condition
Inspired Hex / Holy Veil
Rebirth

ubermancer · Aug 21, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis

Don't play PvE much, do you? lol. In PvE it's one of the best skills. Definately not for PvP though.

Don't play Guild Wars much, do you? lol.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 21, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Breeze is a horrible skill in pve too. If you're trying to use it to counter degen, just remove the condition or hex causing the degen... for 5 less energy. And Breeze is absolutely horrible for pure healing...

As soon as you can remove 3+ hexes on your team in any reasonable amount of time (expel hexes is generally not an option, ty), sure I'll remove them. Until then, Breeze serves a useful purpose. The recharge on Remove Hex is 7 seconds. Recharge on Holy Veil 12. Recharge on Inspired Hex is 20. I can't wait that long to simply 'remove the hex'. By that time it will have done more damage than it would have saved me energy to just put Breeze on them and be done with it (besides the fact that breeze will counter every hex that causes degen, not just one at a time). If you're really worried about energy in PvE, then you're not doing something right. I can count the times I've actually run out of energy in PvE in the last few months on my fingers.

However, by all means continue to do whatever you want with your builds. Just try to remember that Breeze is not nearly as useless as you seem to think it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Don't play Guild Wars much, do you? lol.

Of course I do. You're just being silly. PvP mentalities often don't work in PvE, and vice versa. Boon Prot is not as efficient at healing as a pure healer build, but I would not consider bringing a pure healer to TA. This applies vice versa as well.

ubermancer · Aug 21, 2006, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Your right, Im silly and dont know what Im talking about when it comes to Monking.

B Ephekt · Aug 21, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis

As soon as you can remove 3+ hexes on your team in any reasonable amount of time (expel hexes is generally not an option, ty), sure I'll remove them.

Convert Hexes. Granted it has a limiting recharge time, but you should be more focused on removing debuff hexes than those that only cause degen. The healer can easily heal through the degen pve mobs can stack up.

Quote:

The recharge on Remove Hex is 7 seconds. Recharge on Holy Veil 12. Recharge on Inspired Hex is 20. I can't wait that long to simply 'remove the hex'. By that time it will have done more damage than it would have saved me energy to just put Breeze on them and be done with it (besides the fact that breeze will counter every hex that causes degen, not just one at a time).

That's great, but it still doesn't change the fact that pure healing is a more efficient way to counter degen than Breeze.

Quote:

If you're really worried about energy in PvE, then you're not doing something right. I can count the times I've actually run out of energy in PvE in the last few months on my fingers.

I don't have problems with energy in pve because I know how to heal (or prot) efficiently (thanks to pvp experience). That's still not a reason to waste skill slots (and attribute points on a prot monk) for inefficient heals.

Also, you're wasting two slots on your bar for "degen counters," one of them being an elite skill. Life Sheath or Mark of Protection would both be more benificial to your team than Shield of Regen.

Quote:

PvP mentalities often don't work in PvE, and vice versa.

Lies. I primarily do pvp and i've yet to have a problem in pve with my "pvp mentality" because things that pvpers use are generally more reasonable than the random crap people use in pve. Hell, even Frenzy works in pve provided the warrior using it can grasp the oh-so-elusive concept of cover stances.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 21, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Convert Hexes. Granted it has a limiting recharge time, but you should be more focused on removing debuff hexes than those that only cause degen. The healer can easily heal through the degen pve mobs can stack up.

I'm not sure of the wisdom of using convert hexes, because it costs 15 energy and has a long recharge. Those hexes will be back immediately with the mobs being what they are, and just clearing one person of w/e hexes on them for a moment just doesn't impress me too much. Hex removal can go to a mesmer, who have better skills to deal with them anyway.

Quote:

That's great, but it still doesn't change the fact that pure healing is a more efficient way to counter degen than Breeze.

I thought countering things like damage was the prot monk's job. Also, any number of times that I've been prot I've gotten stuck with a 'healer' who spams things like Heal Other and then pings his energy continously. Breeze saved quite a few people in my experience, because you can't avoid people like that in PvE (at least in PuGs).

Quote:

I don't have problems with energy in pve because I know how to heal (or prot) efficiently (thanks to pvp experience). That's still not a reason to waste skill slots (and attribute points on a prot monk) for inefficient heals.

Waste of attributes is not an issue. 15 protection is enough for anyone. Divine is 11 or 13. Do you 'need' a couple of points of extra heal? Of course not.

Quote:

Also, you're wasting two slots on your bar for "degen counters," one of them being an elite skill. Life Sheath or Mark of Protection would both be more benificial to your team than Shield of Regen.

I disagree. Shield of Regen is quite useful and I hardly ever use it as a degen counter. it's +40 armor and regen effectively turn a caster into a tank, which is quite useful in many situations. Mark of Protection has some very serious drawbacks, which include a 45(!) second recharge, and it disables all of your protection skills for 5 seconds. Using my elite once or twice per fight just doesn't appeal to me somehow.

Life Sheath is nice, I admit, but it is more situational than Shield of Regen, as well as only blocking maybe 1-2 hits max on casters. I'd rather use Protective Spirit, or maybe Guardian (especially when more than one guy is hitting my prot target). They're more efficient at keeping damage down.

Quote:

Lies. I primarily do pvp and i've yet to have a problem in pve with my "pvp mentality" because things that pvpers use are generally more reasonable than the random crap people use in pve. Hell, even Frenzy works in pve provided the warrior using it can grasp the oh-so-elusive concept of cover stances.

You don't need to play PvP to understand basic concepts of gameplay, though I do play TA a lot. Almost anything 'works' in PvE, and sometimes that which would seem stupid to a PvP'er will work just as good or better than the standard PvP build because there are different requirements for the builds. Your PvP build may 'work' (just like everything else) but it is clearly not the only way to play PvE well.

B Ephekt · Aug 21, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis

I'm not sure of the wisdom of using convert hexes, because it costs 15 energy and has a long recharge. Those hexes will be back immediately with the mobs being what they are, and just clearing one person of w/e hexes on them for a moment just doesn't impress me too much. Hex removal can go to a mesmer, who have better skills to deal with them anyway.

I was only offering an option which you left out. And NPCs have recharge times on their skills as well, you know. Personally, I wouldn't bother with convert in pve, it's uses are even limited in pvp.

How often do you see mesmers in pve though? And how often have those mesmers either offered to load up on hex removals or agreed to take a notable amount of removal skills? PUGs are going to expect monks to bring hex and condition removal, that's just how things are.

Quote:

I thought countering things like damage was the prot monk's job.

It is, my point was that countering degen is the healers job for the most part, hex removal aside.

Quote:

Life Sheath is nice, I admit, but it is more situational than Shield of Regen, as well as only blocking maybe 1-2 hits max on casters. I'd rather use Protective Spirit, or maybe Guardian (especially when more than one guy is hitting my prot target). They're more efficient at keeping damage down.

Life Sheath is very spammable though, and has the potential to negate way more damage than SoR. I fail to see how it's more situational either.

Quote:

Almost anything 'works' in PvE, and sometimes that which would seem stupid to a PvP'er will work just as good or better than the standard PvP build because there are different requirements for the builds. Your PvP build may 'work' (just like everything else) but it is clearly not the only way to play PvE well.

Fair enough. By all means, use whatever build you enjoy playing. I'll just never understand why people favor Healing Breeze in any build other than a 55 monk.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 21, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

I'll admit I used to use Breeze in a PvE bonding build. But I think I had some good reasons.

1. I ran it along-side Blessed Aura and a 20% enchant staff for a 16 second duration.

2. I find that with Bonder Builds since you have Balthazar's Spirit and the Bonds you generally have a glut of energy, but not quite enough skills to spend them on, with the 2 second recharge Breeze is very spammable. The Protection version of Orison, RoF, doesn't work too well with bonds becuase you often reduce the incoming damage to the point where RoF doesn't heal for much.

3. Breeze is wierd in that although it's in healing prayers, it works like a protection skill, in that like most protection spells you want to put it where you think damage is going to go next.

4. Since I ran it in a primarly protection build, I made sure the target was protted up with other things before slapping on the breeze, to give it time for it to actually work. I didn't rely on breeze alone to save someone from death.

5. It made a nice cover enchant for things like Protective Spirit and the Bonds.

6. It took some pressure off the primary healing monk, who I could rely on to supply the spike heals when they were needed.

That said, I would never ever run Healing Breeze on a Straight Healing monk.

Turbobusa · Aug 21, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

my 2 cents:
pure heal is better than heal over time.
and shield of regen is a great skill, +40al is a wonderfull buff for a monk (i know it is contradictory but as it is not used to "counter degen")

holden · Aug 21, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis

However, by all means continue to do whatever you want with your builds. Just try to remember that Breeze is not nearly as useless as you seem to think it is.

breeze could be good if it was 5 energy. but it's 10. even at 9 regen you'll only get a 180 heal, if it lasts it's duration. 5 energy for a 90 point heal would be nice but that's not the case, it's 10 energy for 180 over time. when you only have 45 energy a good monk will demand more out of a 10 energy skill than breeze offers, imo.

rarely will you put breeze on someone and leave them be. you will almost always use another 5e skill as well. and if all that target needed was breeze, why not just use orison, or nothing at all?

orison will heal for 63 and has a 2 second cooldown.
dwayna's will heal for 50 with an added 30 for each hex or enchantment and a 3 second cooldown. they each cost 5.

you can say that breeze is a good skill in pve but numbers dont lie. it's a 10 energy heal you wont get all at once and unless the target was 180 health low, you wont get it all period. the fact that people justify it's use by bringing up siphon or transfer or any degen just shows how shitty those skills are.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 21, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Lies. I primarily do pvp and i've yet to have a problem in pve with my "pvp mentality" because things that pvpers use are generally more reasonable than the random crap people use in pve.

And yet Healing Breeze is a good heal in PvE. It's energy efficient (180+bonus heal for 10 energy... and in reality it's 216+bonus, as everyone uses +20% enchant); has fast cast & short cycle; and the main downside of HB, that it heals so slowly that the enemy outdamages the regen, isn't much of a problem in PvE as mobs don't spike or even concentrate fire. Well, at least not often.